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TIME: 9:00 AM
76-6280 Kuakini Hwy.




Geri Bell (Chair)
Ruby McDonald, Kona (Vice-Chair)
Ron Dela Cruz, Kohala
Roger Harris
Ku Kahakalau, Hamakua
Ulu Sherlock, Hilo


Anna Cariaga, Ka'u
Kaleo Kuali'i, Kona
John Ray
Dutchie Saffrey, Puna


Keola Lindsey, Burial Sites Program
Vince Kanemoto, Deputy Attorney General
Mary Anne Maigret, Hawai'i Island Assistant Archaeologist


Jean Rasor
Tom Dye
Curtis Tyler
Pam Mizuno
Keone Lopaka
Lunakanawai Hauanio
Ke'onipa'a Choy
Bob Rechtman
Kalei Victor
Hannah Reeves
Ron Cawthon
Curt DeWeeseByron Moku
Alan Hau



I. Opening Remarks


Begin Tape 1 Side A


HIBC Chair Geri Bell (Bell) calls the meeting to order at 930a.


Ku Kahakalau (Kahakalau) offers a pule.


II. Approval of March 17, 2005 HIBC Meeting Minutes


page 2- under Opening Remarks the parcel being referred to down by Sarona Road and Kuakini Highway is TMK (3) 7-5-7:28.


page 18- (Thomas) Hanuna is misspelled


Page 22, third paragraph- it is unclear if the Family name being referred to is Pihana or Pihaina.


A motion is made to approve the March 17, 2005 HIBC Meeting Minutes as amended



Vote: All in Favor





Information/Determination/Recommendation: Presentation by Rechtman Consulting. Council determination to preserve in place or relocate previously identified burials. Council recommendations to the Department on the short and long term preservation measures detailed in the burial treatment plan. Recognition of Descendants.


Keola Lindsey (Lindsey) says the Department is aware this agenda item has a long history, and a lot of people have been involved. On the issue of cultural descendants, and cultural or community groups- if the HIBC makes a determination today, the Department will keep trying to move forward working with all interested parties- there is still a lot of work to be done, and the Department is not going to take one group or person's ideas and force them onto the others. The Department looks at a determination by the HIBC today as one small step forward in a long process.


Ron Cawthon (Cawthon) says he represents the La'aloa 'Ohana, and they have several concerns regarding the proposed burial treatment plan at La'aloa. The plan indicates that the County had a blanket approval to put in the parking lot. In fact, the SHPD approval was conditional- the County was supposed to implement the recommendations made in Kepa Maly's report. The County has shown a pattern of twisting the truth, and committing fraud in the process. As of the date of this meeting, 98% of Kepa Maly's recommendations have not been implemented.

During development of the parking lot, no protective measures were in place for the Heiau and other historic sites. Cawthon says he has pictures showing no protective fencing in place for any phase of the parking lot construction. Cawthon wants to know why SHPD has not taken any actions against the County- why are they above the law?.


Only one kupuna has made statements relative to the modifications on Haukalua Heiau. It has taken the County 12 years to find one family that wants to destroy the religious features on the Heiau. If the County removes the lele, and destroys the religious features associated with the Heiau, it would greatly benefit them. They would not have to deal with the sites, and the Hawaiians that come with them.


The County has proposed restoring the Heiau to a condition the kupuna remember prior to the recent modifications. Cawthon wants to know how government can dictate religious practice?- the answer is simple- no can- it would be a violation of the constitution. The County has twisted the truth in their own evil scheme to destroy the Hawaiian people and culture. Neither the County nor their hired gun provided the La'aloa 'Ohana with a copy of this plan. It has been over a year since the mayor promised to remove the portion of the parking lot encroaching on the heiau, and nothing has been done.


Cawthon demands the HIBC reject the plan- the County will use the HIBC's approval to finalize the rape of this most scared place. As a direct result of the County's illegal development at La'aloa, beer bottles and trash are thrown on the heiau and historic sites on a daily basis.


Cawthon apologizes if he sounds bitter, because he is. Cawthon is bitter that public servants are paid to do a job, and do not follow the law. Cawthon is bitter that public servants did not give the 'Ohana a copy of the plan. Cawthon is bitter that La'aloa is the epicenter of the current ice epidemic because the servants chased the kupuna and Hawaiians away with guns. Cawthon is bitter that the public servants are out of control.


Lunakanawai Hauanio (Hauanio) thanks Lindsey for giving him a copy of the burial treatment plan.


Lindsey says he is welcome, and it was with the County's permission that the plan was given to him.


Hauanio says he wants to emphasize the amount of people that are involved with this site- they have all been a part of sharing the diverse concerns regarding the site. In recent times there have been communications that went back and forth regarding the sites. The map he has shows three sites- he mentioned that last meeting. The plan addresses only one site. Hauanio would like to have the HIBC consider the other sites be identified in the plan, and those sites be preserved in place.


They met with Pam Mizuno and Jim (?) and went down to the site. The West Hawai'i Today covered a story on that day. It was Hauanio's understanding at the time that these issues were going to be resolved so we can move forward. Hauanio thought they had an agreement in June 2004. He has a copy of the lease that he submitted.


Bell asks Hauanio the lease is between who?.


Hauanio says the lease is between the La'aloa 'Ohana and the County Department of Parks and Recreation.


Bell asks Hauanio is it a draft?.


Hauanio says yes. They wanted to discuss the language that was going to be proposed, and everyone agreed with the language to date. He is not sure if it is final, because it was broken up in different communications via email. With all of these communications prior to the development of the final plan that is before the HIBC today, Hauanio is not sure. There were representations from the Opunui 'Ohana and they are not here today. Hauanio is concerned about that. Hauanio is concerned about any 'ohana that is concerned about their kupuna iwi- and they are not here. Hauanio wants the HIBC to take that into consideration.


Hauanio says he is in support of the County's efforts to approve a burial treatment plan yesterday, it is just this plan is incomplete. Until it is complete-


Bell asks Hauanio what makes the plan incomplete?.


Hauanio says page 8 does not identify on the wall where the iwi are. The plan does not identify the mauka portion of the parking lot where the arrow is- that is interesting.


Kahakalau asks Hauanio the resolution he passed out has not been approved, but that is what the 'Ohana submitted?.


Hauanio says that is the communication that was going out. He just wanted to say he does not know why these other things have not been taken into consideration.


Roger Harris (Harris) asks what the status of the master plan?.


Hauanio says the master plan had identified several concerns the 'Ohana had expressed that the County agreed. One of them was to modify the parking lot, and hopefully they put back the wall and the iwi- that would be maika'i.


Kahakalau says the proposed buffers are 50 feet in all directions, and the plan refers to figure 3. Figure 3 does not show the proposed buffer.


Bob Rechtman says there is a figure missing in the plan. At the last meeting there was a request to see the overall Park. Figure 8 in the plan only shows the burial site. There are other sites in the Park- a ku'ula, wall, punawai, papamu, poho- baitcups in some places, and other platforms, and through oral testimony- a canoe landing.

Rechtman has prepared a map showing the overall Park and the sites (shows map to HIBC).


Kahakalau asks Rechtman where are the iwi in the Heiau?.


Rechtman says according to the information in the reports, they are in an area around here (points to map).


Harris says the shaded area around the Heiau on the map is the proposed buffer- a restricted area- what happens in the area that is not shaded?.


Rechtman says he is not sure what the plan is relative to the overall Park improvements. There will be trail and signage relative to historic preservation requirements.


Harris asks the makai side of the Heiau is fairly inaccessible?- rocky coastline?.


Rechtman says it is flat coastline, and the County would probably get in trouble if they told people not to walk along the shoreline. The 50 foot buffer extends to a point where people can still walk around.


Bell asks a portion of the parking lot will be removed?.


Pam Mizuno (Mizuno) says yes, the portion indicated on the map.


Kahakalau asks what happens where the parking lot is to be removed?.


Mizuno says the pavement will stay, but the existing rock wall will be relocated to block off that potion of the parking lot.


Ron Dela Cruz (Dela Cruz) asks that portion of the parking lot will be left alone?.


Mizuno says except for foot traffic. It would be blocked to vehicular access. Hopefully this area will be used for something in the future that won't impact the sites.


Rechtman says some of the earlier conversations discussed using this area as the cultural center. If people want to develop this area into a cultural center, Rechtman thinks the County may be ok with that. He is just trying to explain what is going on here. There is no deceptive manipulation going on in any of this. He did not seek out anybody- they put ads in the paper, and people responded. Rechtman ask them what they wanted to see, and they told him, and that is what has been reported. There have been years of consultations prior to his involvement, and years of consultations with his involvement. It is at face value.


Mizuno says they will be working with the SHPD in terms of coming up with a preservation plan for the rest of the park.


Rechtman says the earlier preservation plan submitted by Kepa to the SHPD was sent back to have some minor alterations made. One alteration was inclusion of a burial treatment plan. Prior to resubmitting the plan, the SHPD said to get the burial treatment plan done first.


Kahakalau says she strongly feels the relocation of the lele should not be a part of this proposed burial treatment plan, because it should not be the prerogative of the County to tell Hawaiian practitioners where we can practice, and how we can practice. Kahakalau is not sure how to deal with this.


Bell says it can be dealt with when the HIBC makes recommendations to the Department.


Kahakalau wants to clarify that the Opunui 'Ohana are the only recognized descendants.


Rechtman says the Opunui 'Ohana have not submitted their paperwork, so they have not been officially recognized.


Kahakalau says that is a problem because the plan calls for archaeological monitors working with recognized descendants or descendant approved community groups. The terminology she is hearing is exclusive- she would rather it be opened up to use inclusive terminology.


Rechtman says the reason that language was used was to keep consistent with the HIBC rules that give a lot of rights to descendants.


Bell says the difference here is that this is a County park, open to all residents.


Kahakalau says it is a heiau- if it is a private burial site that is a totally different story. There are no lineal descendants- this could be anyone's family.


Curtis Tyler (Tyler) says he has not seen or read the burial treatment plan. He has some substantial dealings with La'aloa for over 10 years including some with Uncle Leon when he was alive. Tyler says his lineal connections are to the adjacent ahupua'a of Pahoehoe.


End Tape 1 Side A

Begin Tape 1 Side B


It is his understanding that the proposed buffer is 50 feet in all directions from the Heiau. The map Tyler saw looked like there was less than 50 feet on the north side, but he spoke with Pam Mizuno, and she confirmed the portion of the parking lot within the proposed buffer area will be removed. In the past, a 100 foot buffer has been approved around other heiau because of traditional customary practices related to heiau. In this case, because of the size of the property, 50 feet is very generous. Tyler was surprised to hear this morning that there have been no descendants formally recognized. There should be people connected to that land- after Tyler heard that, he thought maybe he should submit a claim to that land- he has connections to the adjacent ahupua'a on both sides of La'aloa.


The old trail goes directly through this area- Tyler spoke with Pam Mizuno about this. Part of the parking lot- the ingress- is right on top of this trail. If you look on the maps, you will see where it keeps going south. It is very important that if the area outside of the wall (that separates the parking lot and Heiau area) is going to be preserved and protected for cultural use, there needs to be some kind of pedestrian access area. That way if you are coming from the Pahoehoe Ahupua'a (north) side heading south, you can walk on the trail- that is the original trail over there.


Preserving these iwi in place is the pono thing to do.


Hauanio refers to the map that Rechtman showed earlier, and Valerie Luhiau's January 19, 2005 letter. Haunaio says Luhiau's concerns were that the location of the lele causes people to walk on top of the burials. According to the location of the burial shown by Rechtman, Hauanio feels it is very unlikely the iwi will be walked on.


Hauanio would like the HIBC to consider the PASH decision. If the County keeps treating this property like it is private, they should be denied.


Cawthon says promises are cheap. The County has made a lot of promises over the last 12 years, and they have never delivered once. The County is promising the HIBC that they will remove the parking lot, and put the buffers in. Cawthon thinks it would be more fitting to have a formal written agreement, because after the determination is made, what can the HIBC do if the County does not do what they are supposed to do?.


Hannah Reeves (Reeves) says she is one of the living descendants of the area. She was there when they made the parking lot and the wall. She did notify them that they were not supposed to come close to the Heiau. Reeves still lives in the area, and has her whole life. This is a very important area, and it is time to protect old Hawai'i.


The recently constructed wall should come down. Reeves told them they should not have built the wall in the first place, but they did not listen to her. Now, the County is going to have to spend money to take the wall down. She is not sure how close they are going to get to the Heiau- Reeves is not sure, but there might be caves- there is a lot of bones, and they cannot disturb them. Reeves wants to be there when they start work. She agrees with the wall coming down.


Someone needs to be there to watch over the place. Reeves wants to bring her family there to help beautify the area. Reeves feels in her heart that now is the time for the people to rise up and protect all of the cultural places. It is time government supports the Hawaiians- we cannot be held back any more. Reeves hopes her family- the Kane Family, the Kunewa Family- they are still around today- will be a part of it. The family will take the position to come there and volunteer and clean up and take care of the Heiau. Reeves is not saying they will be there 24 hours a day- but will do anything to protect old Hawai'i.


Jean Rasor (Rasor) says he does not like the iwi moved or disturbed. Now we are talking about a heiau in La'aloa. What does La'aloa mean?- very sacred. The Heiau was placed there for a reason- any change disturbs the mana. The recently constructed wall is intrusive- it takes away from the surrounding area, the view plane- everything- you may as well bulldoze half the heiau. Physically you are not doing anything to the heiau, but spiritually you are.


A motion is made to preserve in place the known burial in Site 2009- Haukalua Heiau.



Vote: All in Favor


Bell says now the HIBC will make recommendations to the DLNR regarding the burial treatment plan.


Tyler says there has been a considerable amount of testimony for years regarding the existence of additional burials. Any additional burials found during work implementing protective measures for the Heiau should be treated as previously known. It sounds like some people don't want any wall separating the preserve area from the parking lot- there needs to be a pathway, and Tyler wanted to make sure the alanui there is protected.


Ruby McDonald (McDonald) says she is very disappointed with the Department for not identifying any cultural or lineal descendants. McDonald says she submitted her paperwork two years ago when the notices first came out, and she is sure other people did to.


Bell asks Lindsey if the issue is that nobody came forward or that there is paperwork within the Department that has not been reviewed?. Bell understands that Lindsey is not the one that reviews genealogy, but this is an important issue because descendants will always have the opportunity to be recognized.


Lindsey agrees that it is important because there is still the larger preservation plan for the park, which will need to have descendant input.


McDonald says there was another person who came to her office, and McDonald helped her fax her genealogy to the Department- this was about six months ago.


Kahakalau says she has several recommendations. The Department should expedite it's review of descendant claims. Cultural practitioners and community groups should have a role throughout the process. Relocation of the lele should not occur without approval by everyone involved. The proposed signage is written in the past tense and diminishes the importance of the area- the signage should be modified to reflect the ongoing importance of the area. The landscaping should be low- this is a heiau, and we need a view plane. Any additional findings of iwi should be treated as previously known. Access to the alanui should be preserved.


McDonald asks which alanui we are talking about?.


Kahakalau says the one Tyler mentioned. It should be preserved.


McDonald asks Rechtman about the proposed signage- are the two names used for the Heiau going to be used?- Haukalua and Haukaloa.


Rechtman says Haukalua will be used.


Kahakalau says the signage only refers to the past. She feels it would be appropriate to have a sentence or two about the present use.


McDonald says people should have an idea of what was there, but the present day should also be incorporated.


Dela Cruz says the more he thinks about it, the more he feels the signage needs to be worked on.


Kahakalau says access to the site should not be limited to lineal and cultural descendants who have been formally recognized. Access should be permitted to any cultural practitioner.


Harris says he hopes everyone can agree to start looking toward the future. He was at the Park this morning, and there is a lot of work to do. It seems that there is a lot of interest from community groups, and Hawaiian groups. There should be some creative thinking about what happens to the portion of the parking lot that will be removed. There are ways that this could work out for everybody- but there is a danger for negative fallout from this- it is a public park. We should be sensitive, and try and preserve as much parking as possible. The main thing is to get someone back out there to malama the place.


McDonald says she is concerned- the HIBC makes decisions on the burial site- not cultural practices. It is unclear if the HIBC can allow access to the burial site for cultural practitioners as well as the lineal and cultural descendants.


Lindsey says the HIBC as a body can make any recommendation to the Department.


Dela Cruz says it is an issue of lineal and cultural descendants versus cultural practitioners. If an American Indian came by and wanted to honor the site because it is a public park would that be considered an allowable treatment of the site?, or are we really talking about cultural practitioners within the realm of who we are as Hawaiians.


Kahakalau says if he is a true practitioner, the American Indian is not going to go there without the Hawaiian. The idea is to expand access from just recognized descendants to any native practitioner.


McDonald says this will set a precedent for other burial sites.


Bell says the HIBC is stuck because this is a burial site that is also a heiau, and it is on public property. The signage and wording will be the key- there are still going to be people that climb on the heiau.


Bell asks Mizuno when the park is open?.


Mizuno says the Park is supposed to be closed from 11 pm to 6 am, but there is no physical barrier.


Bell says she has a problem with page 10 of the plan which says the County will develop a formal access agreement. That just covers lineal and cultural descendants. Cultural practitioners practice 24 hours a day. Sometimes they need access in the middle of the night.


A motion is made to make the following recommendations to the Department:


- In addition to recognized descendants and descendant approved community groups, cultural practitioners and other community groups with an interest in La'aloa Beach Park should assist a qualified archaeologist in supervising and/or monitoring all work.


- Relocation of anything from the Heiau should not occur unless there is approval from the recognized descendants, cultural practitioners, and community groups with an interest in La'aloa Beach Park.


- Signage should be revised to not diminish the importance of the area. The proposed signage is written in the past tense- it should be brought into the present. Any signage should be approved by the recognized descendants, cultural practitioners, and community groups with an interest in La'aloa Beach Park.


- Landscaping around the site should be as low as possible, and approved by the recognized descendants, cultural practitioners, and community groups with an interest in La'aloa Beach Park.


- All findings of iwi shall be treated as previously known


- Access to the alanui should be preserved.


- Access to the burial site for cultural activities will be permitted to any recognized descendants and native cultural practitioners. Access should not be limited to a certain time- especially for cultural practitioner.

- The Department should expedite it's review of pending descendant claims.



Vote: All in Favor


Bell says the draft overall preservation plan should be brought back to the HIBC for review. Curtis Tyler has also offered to kokua on this issue in the past- he is respected by both sides, and he should be a part of trying to keep this issue moving forward.


Tyler says his offer still stands.


Mary Anne Maigret says there will be an opportunity for the public to comment on the overall preservation plan for the park when it is submitted to the Department.


End Tape 1 Side B

Begin Tape 2 Side A


Ron Cawthon says he wants to make it clear that people will be arrested if they are in the Park after 11 pm.


Bell says there is a difference between practicing religion and culture and being kolohe.



[TMK (3) 5-8-001:11]

Information/Determination/Recommendation: Presentation by Tom Dye & Colleagues. Council Determination to preserve in place or relocate previously identified burials found during an archaeological inventory survey. Council recommendations to the Department on the short and long term preservation measures detailed in the burial treatment plan. Recognition of Descendants.


Lindsey says there is a member of the HIBC that needs to be excused from this matter, and if that happens the HIBC will loose quorum. The statutory 45 day time frame for the HIBC to make a determination will expire. Tom Dye is here today. Dye has submitted a revised burial treatment plan that incorporates all of the recommendations the HIBC made last month.


Bell says there was a cover letter with the revised plan that lists the changes to the burial treatment plan.


Lindsey says Dye will inform his client of the situation, and his client will review his options. The Department has requested an extension of the time period- hopefully we can come back in May to have the HIBC make a determination.


Dye says he is in a position now where he needs to make a recommendation to his client on what he should do with respect to this plan. Any advice the HIBC can give him will be appreciated. Dye's sense is that last month, everyone was in agreement with the substance of the plan, and had some clarifications they wanted made- they took that to heart and made those changes. Dye feels it is a good plan. His client has some time pressures, because he is selling portions of the land. His client has been pushing him quite a bit.


Bell says we did take the time last meeting to go over the HIBC's concerns. It would be nice if the landowner does extend the time period so the HIBC can make a formal determination and recommendation on the plan. Unfortunately, we will loose quorum.


Lindsey says the descendants did get the revised plan.




[TMK (3) 7-5-19:01]

Information/Determination/Recommendation: Presentation by Alan Haun & Associates. Council Determination to Preserve in Place or Relocate Previously Identified Burials. Council Recommendations to the Department on the short and long term Preservation Measures detailed in the burial treatment plan. Recognition of Descendants.


Lindsey says this is the first time this item is on the HIBC agenda, so the 45 day clock starts today. The Department does have record of recognized descendants in Kahului Ahupua'a- some were involved with the Kona Hawaiian Village project which is nearby- Hannah Reeves, Curtis Tyler, and some of the HIBC members are the recognized descendants. The plan has gone out to everyone who responded.


Alan Haun (Haun) says he prepared the burial treatment plan. The property is situated between Ali'i Drive and the Kuakini Wall, and borders the east and west sides of the Kona Sea Ridge development. The burials were identified during an inventory survey conducted by Haun and Associates. Both features are stone platforms. Newspaper notices were published during preparation of the plan- at least four individuals responded, and copies of the plan circulated to them.


The proposal is to preserve in place. Long term preservation would be achieved through establishment of a 20 foot permanent buffer around each site on all sides. With the exception of appropriate cultural activities and periodic maintenance, no land modifications or other activities would be permitted within the buffer. The surface area within the buffer will be left in it's natural state. The buffer boundaries would be delineated by a low stone wall.


During construction, a temporary buffer of 50 feet will be established around the site until the permanent buffer is erected. Responsibility for security and maintenance of the site will be with the landowner. Long term in place preservation will established through a restrictive covenant that will be incorporated into the property deed. Access to the burial site will be permitted to any descendant formally recognized by the HIBC.


There are other non-burial sites in the vicinity that are slated for preservation- an example is Site 6332 Feature A.


McDonald asks Haun what the significance of that site is.


Haun says it is a very large enclosure- probably a high status residence, or maybe even a men's house.


Dela Cruz says he is concerned because it appears from the map on page 3 of the plan that the proposed Ali'i Highway Corridor goes through the project area, and the map shows sites in the corridor.


Haun says those are habitation sites, and that really has to do with the mitigation for the highway project. In the survey for that highway, all of the sites are individually assessed for significance.


Dela Cruz asks Haun if there are any restrictions on the development because of the proposed corridor.


Haun says Curt DeWeese, the landowner representative is here.


Curt DeWeese (DeWeese) says they have to dedicate the proposed corridor to the County as part of their zoning- they have no involvement in that (the corridor) portion of land.


Dela Cruz asks about the Kona Sea Ridge development-


DeWeese says that is an existing project.


Kahakalau says she is not clear on where and what is going to be built. The map on page 3 of the plan shows a lot of features other than the preservation sites.


Haun says those are all agricultural features.


Kahakalau says those are all going to be eliminated then, right?.


Haun says there are three plans currently under review- the burial treatment plan, the preservation plan for certain non-burial sites, and a data recovery plan which addresses all of the other sites, except for those identified on the map (on page 3) by letter. The letter features for the most part are outcrops or low piles of stone.


Bell asks DeWeese what the plan is for the property?.


DeWeese says they don't have a definitive plan yet. The upper property is zoned for low density, multi-family RM-7, which equates to six units per acre which means a single family project. The lower side, like most properties close to Ali'i Drive is zoned for higher density use RM-4 which is 10 units per acre which is more like a apartment condominium project.


Kahakalau says if the HIBC does not know what is going to be done, it is hard to know how the buffers in particular, are going to fit. Is the house going to be built right at the 20 foot buffer?, how do the sites fit into the development plan?. That has been one of the ongoing questions- when developers come to the HIBC, and there is no plan, it makes it really difficult. Later people will ask HIBC members how they could have allowed this or that to happen, and the HIBC response will be, well we never saw the plan.


Lindsey says in general, Developers usually try and get through the SHPD review process before starting plans for the actual layout of the development- that way if unexpected things come up- i.e. inadvertent discoveries, the developer still has some flexibility. If plans are on file with the County, etc. and things come up, it is a lot harder to make changes- that is just a general reason why sometimes there are no development plans at this stage. There are arguments on both sides why there should or should not be development plans.


Dela Cruz says when there is no development plans, sometimes that is how problems start- an architect draws this on paper. The other problem is that the Ali'i Highway splits the property.


DeWeese says they have access from the Kuakini Highway above, and access from Ali'i Highway down below.


Dela Cruz asks access from above will be through Site 6302- the Kuakini Wall?.


Deweese says there are several previously existing breeches in the wall.


McDonald asks DeWeese if they own the entire L-shaped parcel depicted on the map?.


DeWeese says they do, and are in the process of dedicating the portion identified on the map as the Ali'i Highway Corridor to Hawai'i County.


Ulu Sherlock (Sherlock) asks how far Site 6332B is from the proposed Ali'i Highway Corridor?.


Haun says approximately 50-60 feet.


Bell says it looks like on the map, there is a road near Site 23915- if that road is going to stay, Bell is concerned because it is really close to that site- maybe closer than 20 feet. Without the development plans, it is difficult to imagine what is going to be built on the property, and how it will affect the burials.


DeWeese says three years ago, when they bought the property, there were a lot of homeless people squatting on the property. The police came in and ran them out. The road was already there then, and was used by four wheel drive vehicles. There are existing sewer lines that run up the adjacent property on the north all the way up to Kuakini Highway.

Curtis Tyler (Tyler) says he is already a recognized descendant of Kahului 1 and 2 and in Puapua'a 1 and 2. In Kahului 1st he was recognized as a lineal descendant for sites at Kona Hawaiian Village. In Kahului 2nd he was recognized for a site on the boundary between Ali'i Park Place and Kona Sea Ridge. Haun did send him a copy of the burial treatment plan, and archaeological inventory survey.


There was a big landing at Kahului- you may have seen pictures of the boats anchored off shore.. The Makuakane Family lived on a kuleana lot that became part of the Kona Hawaiian Village.


The mauka boundary of this project is the Pa Kuakini. There are six breeches in the Pa Kuakini. A number of those breeches occurred when there were large fires in there. Tyler thinks some of the push piles identified on the map are a result of those fires.


The 20 foot buffers are fairly appropriate given the size of the property. Tyler is glad to hear that the proposal is to preserve in place, and strongly urges the HIBC to concur. There is also a proposal to builds a dry stacked appearance rock wall with reinforcement. Tyler suggests collecting the stones before the bulldozer gets in there and marks them up. Tyler would recommend putting the permanent buffer up as soon as possible. The wall should have an access gate for descendants- made of ohi'a perhaps. There should also be an additional 10 foot no build set back from the 20 foot buffer.


On an adjacent property to the north there is a very significant heiau right below the Pa Kuakini. There is also a burial feature in the Pa Kuakini in that area. If you went to the heiau, it looks down over this entire area, so you can see why they built it there.


Tyler says Aunty Luciana Makuakane-Tripp and her brother told him on separate occasions about a large cave- a burial cave that their father had pointed out to them. Makuakane-Tripp's son, Tyler thinks his name is Richard- told Tyler that he had went up there with his uncle. They had wanted to show Tyler the cave, but Tyler told them no. They had pointed in the direction. Tyler's recollection is that it is in this area. Tyler has spoken to Haun about this on at least two occasions- maybe more- about if Haun had found any caves. This cave was large enough that you could go down inside- it was quite large. Haun has told Tyler that no caves have been found. All Tyler knows is that this cave was significant enough for the Makuakane Family to all remember it. It may be on this property, it may be on the Kona Hawaiian Village.


Tyler agrees that there should be a conceptual development plan- at least something to look at. The reason this is important is that there are plans to connect the existing development mauka of the Pa Kuakini and the proposed development makai of the Pa Kuakini. This will provide another mauka-makai connector road. Between Kahului and Holualoa 1st, people can't get out- when the tsunami comes it will inundate these areas.


If the SHPD concurs, Tyler recommends reconstructing the breeched portions of the Pa Kuakini, and leave only two openings. This then preserves the integrity of the wall. Tyler realizes that this does not pertain directly to the burials, but he is trying to give the Council and overview of the cultural landscape of the area.


If they do find this cave, and there are a significant amount of burials, they should be determined to be previously identified.


McDonald says page 4 of the plan mentions two caves- is that what Tyler is talking about?.


Tyler says he better ask Haun about those.


Haun says those are very small caves- more like blisters, definitely not big lava tubes. It sounds like the cave Tyler is talking about is substantial.


Tyler says it is a big cave, a bunch of the family went down into it.


Haun says these blisters were fully mapped and documented, they do not extend farther.


McDonald says she has heard the same story Tyler is telling, but has never been to the cave.


Hannah Reeves (Reeves) says she is for old Hawai'i. Everything should be moved away from the burials. Reeves does not want to see any of the sites damaged. We need to see the sites with our own eyes before we make a decision. This is a very sacred area. We need to know we did the right thing.


Kahakalau says that Lindsey had mentioned there were cultural descendants to Kahului, but did not say what they thought about the proposal- Kahakalau asks Lindsey if any of the descendants got back to him?.


Lindsey says Tyler and Reeves were two of the descendants, and are here today. There were one or two others who responded, and were sent the plan, but Lindsey has not heard anything back from them.





Update on the implementation of short and long term preservation measures to protect the site as recommended at the March 2005 Hawai'i Island Burial Council Meeting. Discussion of correspondence sent from the Department to the landowner's representative reflecting the Council's determination and recommendations.


Lindsey says a copy of the 'Auhaukea'e correspondence made it into the HIBC's packet this month. Lindsey's understanding is that the landowner is trying to coordinate with the proper authorities to get the people living on his property out- but it has not happened yet.


McDonald asks Lindsey why was there such a big rush last month then?.


Lindsey says from what he understands it is not that easy of a process to get those people off the property.


Dela Cruz asks what the problem is.


Lindsey says this is one of the last undeveloped parcels near the heart of Kailua town, and there are people living in the immediate vicinity of this site. One of the recommendations the HIBC made last month was to implement immediate protective measures around the site. Bob Rechtman's crew is still monitoring the site on a fairly regular basis.


End Tape 2 Side B

Begin Tape 3 Side A


Kahakalau says it seems that it is kind of ridiculous that we are protecting these small sites in the development area, but there are major sites on the lower portion of the property, outside of the development that have absolutely no over sight. We need to do whatever we can to protect those other sites- Kahakalau wants to make sure the SHPD is on it and working with the landowner.


McDonald asks if there has been a survey of the area?.


Maigret says there was an earlier survey by Paul Rosendahl which generated maps and feature descriptions- the issue is if it is up to current standards. We know where the major feature complexes are and have tentative feature descriptions.


Tyler says he was at the recent Hawai'i County Council meeting. A draft of this project's proposed ordinance has been generated in part as a result of comments made by Tyler, and the HIBC among others. The applicant is being required to identify a community group that will take care of that lower portion of the property that will be preserved- it is approximately 2.89 acres. Once a group is identified the preserved area will be leased to them for one dollar.


Tyler understands Kahakalau's concerns about protecting the makai portion of the property while the formal details are being worked out. Tyler has spoken to the landowner about this issue, and will speak with him again.


The HIBC and other Councils have made recommendations that landowners have accepted- the goal is to protect sites. The sites may be protected from the bulldozers, but there is nobody there to protect the sites. A recent example is at Keolanahihi, where certain members of the community said we aren't going to wait for this to happen anymore, and they just went in and did it. On private property it is a different story- we don't want the police coming in, and arresting people, and people going to jail. That is why people need to step up to the plate and figure out how we are going to do this.


Maigret thanks Tyler for taking the concerns expressed at these meetings to the County Council.




Bell says the Department was sent a letter from Hawai'i Volcanoes National Park (HAVO) in regards to the items they have in their collections which fall under the NAGPRA process. This all relates back to the Forbes Cave. Part of the collection- 5 items were a gift to the Park by the daughter of Mr. Forbes. A letter was sent to the Department asking whether or not the HIBC was a claimant in the process, and there are several questions one being why these items fall under NAGPRA, and what category the items fit into, and qualifications of the HIBC as a Native Hawaiian Organization.


The letter was dated March 2, 2005, and it came to her attention in casual conversation with the superintendent of HAVO. There is a reply due by May 1st. Bell had asked Lindsey if he knew if the Department had responded on behalf of the HIBC- Lindsey does not think so. Bell is willing to draft a response, and forward it to the SHPD, so we meet the deadline.


The HIBC has entered the NAGPRA process as a claimant for those items that are at the Bishop Museum, and also reaffirmed via a motion back in 1999 that the HIBC had an interest in the items at HAVO.


HAVO is going out to Native Hawaiian Organizations that were claimants to the Forbes Cave items.


A motion is made to draft a letter to reaffirm the Hawai'i Island Burial Council's status as a claimant in the Hawai'i Volcanoes Nation Park's Forbes Cave items. (McDonald/Kahakalau)


Vote: All in Favor


Sherlock asks about the workshop for HIBC's members that was proposed at the last meeting in regards to reviewing the applicable laws related the HIBC.


Lindsey says he has been assured that a workshop is in the works.




The meeting is adjourned at 325 p


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